Donny Gillson
Donny Gillson; Astronomer without a telescope (or a clue)

Donny Gillson
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Donny Gillson is a prolific YouTube video uploader with some very odd ideas about astronomy.

Donny Gillson is a conspiracy theorist and internet talk show host who abuses the legal system to harass and intimidate people who disagree with him1. He is (or at least was) a prolific YouTube uploader, an online talk show host, and the webmaster at ursuadams.com2. He makes various claims about astronomy in order to support his ideas, but how good is his astronomy, and what are his claims? Gillson mixes bad astronomy with bad theology and winds up with a very twisted perspective on both.

As of July 2013, Donny Gillson is still promoting the idea of a 'rogue planet', although he has (since December 2012) started calling it "Planet X".

Donny Gillson Background Information

Donny Gillson (a.k.a. 'Donald E. Gillson' a.k.a. 'Donnie Gillson' a.k.a. 'Don Adams' a.k.a. 'Don Ursu Adams' a.k.a. 'UrsuAdams' a.k.a. 'Don Ben Enoch' a.k.a. 'Ursu Ben Enoch') lists himself as being in Minneapolis, Minnesota on his Facebook page3 but is actually in Reno, Nevada in Los Angeles (as of October 2012)4, is a 'Gnostic Christian' and supports the 'Constitution Party', whose stated goals are "to restore our government to its Constitutional limits and our law to its Biblical foundations."5.

Gillson has contested this political affiliation on two occasions. In an email to this site6Gillson claimed "you have no f«bleep» clue who I am .. you can not even get my political affiliation correct." And on his July 4th "32 Degrees of Insanity" netcast Gillson had the following conversation with his guest Chris Geo from "Truth Frequency Radio"7:

Gillson: "… because, uh, there's a… a new website out now called, er, don' know if its new… but I… I… I think I showed it to you, or whatever it's called, and, uh, they, er, you know, did, you know, a, a page on me, and they said my political uh, affiliation was I was a constitutionalist."

Geo: "Hm"

Gillson: "… and I was like 'What?'" (laugh) "What?" (chuckle) "… and you know, based on Biblical principles or something, I have to r.. go back and re-read it, but it had something to do with, with bringing the… the… the law of the land back to Biblical principles, I'm like 'What?'" (chuckle)

Geo: Well, these people, these people wouldn't know the difference between a FEMA camp and the constitution".8

However, the information presented here is faithfully reproduced from Gillson's own Facebook page (one of at least three that he currently maintains), and from the linked political affiliation on that page. Gillson briefly changed his information at about the time he sent that email (or shortly thereafter) but it has since been restored. In addition we have a screen-shot backup in case he changes it again.9

Gillson also claims to be a "32 degree Freemason and Knights Templar"10.


  • 1988 - 1991 U.S. Navy, Surface Sonar Technician, ASW11
  • 2006 - 2008 Saint Paul College; Associates Degree, Network Engineering12
  • 2008 - 2010 Metropolitan State University; Psychology (Listed as 'ongoing')13

Professional History

Gillson's LinkedIn profile14 lists an eclectic employment history, including "DJ", "Corporate Trainer", "Voice Over/Audio Engineer/Creative Producer", "Internet Sales Manager" (for a car dealership), "A/V and IT Specialist", "Network Administrator", "Psychology Lab Assistant" and "On Air Personality and Host".

With the strong background in the entertainment and audio-visual industries, it is no wonder that Gillson sounds so smooth and polished on air.

Excerpts from Gillson's 'About' information at (Now offline)

Donny Gillson is the current host for 32 degrees of Insanity and Co-host for The Heated Conversation every Mon, Wed, and Friday evenings on the Freedomizer Radio Network. Gillson, has been arrested and intimidated for his research on Nibiru and has recently released that Nibiru is a cloaked black planet masking as a carbon star called CW Leonis (Lee — O — Nis). According to his research he believes that CW Leonis is a part of a Convoy masking Nibiru and ELENIN is leading the way.15

Gillson goes on to claim that there is a star in the 'Constellation of Eta Carinae'16, that is the 'Amber Light of our Saviour, Jesus Christ', that Nibiru is our 10th planet, that it is Lucifer's home planet, is 4 times the size of earth, and that Sedna is its moon.

Bad Astronomy

Despite claims that he is an "independent astronomer",17Gillson appears to be illiterate in astronomy, misusing terms, misunderstanding concepts, misplacing objects18 and making pronouncements about objects that he finds in various on-line astronomy programs (Microsoft World-Wide Telescope, Google Sky, WikiSky, etc) that are ridiculous on their face. For example he identifies images of stars as "space-ships" or "black holes" or "brown dwarfs". He is particularly adept at picking out photographic artifacts or even just patterns of stars, and proclaiming them to be various fantastic objects.

Misuse of Astronomy Programs

Gillson's modus operandi is to hop around in various astronomy programs at extreme zoom levels, and locate things that he thinks are unusual-looking. He then highlights these objects or artifacts, and compares them with other objects or artifacts, frequently claiming that they are in positions other than what they are actually in, or that they are related based on similar appearances. Note: At the extreme zoom levels that Gillson habitually uses, most objects appear either as disk-like objects or as shapeless blobs. Reading meaning into these random images is a phenomenon known as Pareidolia.

For example, one of his favorite tactics is to zoom in on a bright star, until the region where the CCD camera was overloaded becomes apparent. He then proclaims this area (frequently circular or somewhat circular, or a diamond shape) to be a 'black hole', or other objects. He also jumps from place to place in these programs, finding similar objects or artifacts, and proclaiming them to be 'brown dwarfs', 'Nibiru', the 'second system' (in addition to 'Nibiru', in Donnyland, there is also a second object coming into the solar system).

Google Sky Blank Spot

Gillson is also a fervent believer that NASA has influenced Google to blank out a spot in Google Sky.

Dyson Spheres, or image artifacts?

In one recent video, Gillson showed an image showing stars against a blue background, with a light streak running from lower left to upper right. In two spots in this streak there were brighter 'doughnut' shaped spots, that were equal in diameter to the width of the streak.

As an amateur astronomer, I quickly recognized that something bright had crossed the path of the telescope, and had emitted two flashes. The light and the spots where the flashes occurred were out-of-focus, and as often happens with imaging artifacts caused by bright sources, the 'doughnut shaped' areas were in fact the primary mirror. It appears to me, without checking for the source of the image, that an airplane flew across the field of view of a ground-based telescope. A fairly mundane, and in fact, frequent occurrence.

Gillson's explanation, however, was that the doughnut shaped areas were either 'Dyson Spheres'19 or 'UFO Refueling stations'.

Misunderstanding of Science

Gillson has a history of misunderstanding and misstating science and scientific news. For example, in a recent radio show Gillson said the following about the OPERA "Faster-Than-Light Neutrino" error.

… and then they said that, that, you know uh, that they had been able to go faster than the speed of light, well, so that would have taken uh, uh, uh Einstein's theory of Relativity and threw that out the window. And that happened in January, and then the actual guy that said that has now stepped down from CERN and no longer is associated with CERN, they came back that 'oh no no no, we, we were, we were just kidding, you know, eeeh we didn't really go as fast as the speed of light, because here's the thing, here's the thing about science, kay, we have built so much around Einstein's theory of relativity, that if that was to be debunked, that means science itself as we know it, every tenure, every, every uh, every uh theory that's out there right now would have to be thrown in the laundry basket, and have to start all over again because the research would be invalid.

Just about every detail in this statement is incorrect.

1) The experimental preliminary results were announced in September 2011.
2) The failed 'no confidence' vote and subsequent voluntary resignations of the physics coordinator Dario Autiero and spokesman Antonio Ereditato occurred in late March 2012.
3) Dario Autiero is still a team member at OPERA20 (I could not find any reference for what Antonio Ereditato is currently doing)
4) Nobody at CERN ever announced "we were just kidding". The September 2011 announcement did not make it sufficiently clear that they felt that the results were suspect, but a careful reading of the announcement makes it clear.
5) Gillson's ideas of what would happen if something contradicted relativity are revealing. Generally speaking, if something were to contradict a well-accepted theory, it does not immediately 'overturn' or 'debunk' it. Evidence is carefully weighed and analyzed, and it would take a lot of evidence to overturn relativity. At best, had the result been true, it would have modified relativity, because relativity has a great deal of supporting evidence.

This is typical Gillson: He systematically misunderstands and misstates the science, and then forms wildly incorrect ideas from his misunderstanding. Attempts to correct his misunderstandings result in abuse, bans from his YouTube channel and radio show chat room.


Gillson's ramblings, as insane as they seem to most people, are taken literally by others. Consider the following comment left on a YouTube video21:

As your quote said " Karma is a B-I-T-C-H ", about time that low life got what was coming to him……Koudo's to you and everyone else involved…. Just a side note ;September last year with the Elenin crap that was happening, i was too stupid to see the truth back then,and in one of his PM's to me was to get off the coast and head inland ( im from Australia ), so i packed my family up and headed to central australia, 14 hr drive, and nothing happened !!.. being a single parent on a dissability pension and money tight, i made every means to get everything in order and head inland with the fear of the end of the world thanx to Mr Gillson. My 8 Yr old daughter thought we was just on Holidays, but she could sence something was wrong. We went without food for 2 days when we got back because i used all my finances to go inland.. Hope the bastard ROTS in HELL…..

Views on Copyright

Gillson has some unusual and unorthodox views on copyright, and what he can and cannot protect under copyright and intellectual property laws.

Extraordinary 'Privacy' notice

Gillson attempts to restrict use of his information through some rather extraordinary (and extra-legal) language posted on his website and Facebook page22. To wit:

You are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, disseminating, or taking any other action against me with regard to this profile and the contents herein. The foregoing prohibitions also apply to your employee , agent , student or any personnel under your direction or control.

The contents of this profile are private and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable by law. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Just to be clear, this is legalistic bullshit. No such 'privacy notice' can prevent criticism under the constitution of the U.S., and cannot prevail against the 'Fair Use' provisions of Copyright law. Donny, you have no legal basis upon which to make this claim. You have placed your information on the internet, including videos on YouTube, your Facebook page, and on your own website. This means that you have legally published the information. As such it is now within the rights of others (under the U.S. Constitution and the Berne Convention) to make commentary, provide analysis, and criticism of your information.

As it turns out, this is a slightly modified copy of the fairly famous "Facebook Privacy Notice", which is yet another internet urban legend.

Strange impression of YouTube Licensing

In a radio show recorded at The Daily Donny, Donny Gillson proclaims that the "Standard YouTube License" precludes anyone from using a recording of him in any manner.

At 2:27 Gillson says:

Fair use is only allowed for educational purposes and if you are an institution of education

This is contradicted by the U.S. Government's U.S. Copyright Office page on fair use which says:

Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.

Gillson mentions education, but leaves out "criticism", "comment", "news reporting", "scholarship" and "research". In addition, there is no restriction on the use for "education" where it is reserved only for an "institution of education".

At 3:10 in that recording, Gillson says:

YouTube actually asked me, they wanted more information in regards to your video, and I s… they said, you know, from what we see, we don't see anything that… that as regards to your video, I said well, you know, if you look in this area they're using "32 degrees of insanity", they are using a small portion, which is copyrighted, the music that's uh… that is, that is copyrighted23, uh, and it's… and my voice which is, as a professional broadcaster, um.. ah.. I have the intellectual property of my own voice24, so, without authorization… and also I wanted also tell you a little bit about what standard YouTube license is. A standard YouTube license means that you are not allowed to use anything of mine, on YouTube… if you want to do it outside of YouTube, go right ahead, but on YouTube there's this thing called the Standard YouTube license, and that does not allow you to use any… [cut off]

This is contradicted by YouTube's page on using copyrighted material, which states:

It's possible that you may be permitted to include small excerpts from copyrighted material in your video if what you intend to use is insubstantial or is incidentally included, or where the intended use you have for the copyrighted material falls within a exception or limitation to copyright under the law in your country.

So, our advice is to seek advice on copyrights from someone who is actually an expert, which does not include Donny Gillson.

Control Freak?

Gillson has been described various times as a "control freak"25, and listening to him mute "Back2Facts" multiple times in the above radio show, and then laugh about it, and claim that he was 'controlling' Back2Facts because 'Back2Facts' agreed to come on Donny's radio show26, and considering his legal threats against this site we are inclined to agree.

Profit of Doom

Gillson is one of the "Profits of Doom", because he is, in fact, profiting from spreading his nonsense27. Gillson attempts to deflect this criticism by adding the modifier "a lot", as in "making a lot of money", which is not what we said. Gillson is, in fact, producing audio and audio-visual recordings that are then used to bolster 'donations' to his website, and has publicly discussed making access to his videos a 'subscription only service'. He also has a PayPal link on his Facebook page.

Gillson also ridiculed the idea that he is a 'profit of doom' on his July 4th "32 Degrees of Insanity" netcast. His sensitivity to this criticism is interesting, as are the mixed messages he is sending about his financial gains surrounding his YouTube videos and his Netcast shows. Again, for clarity, we would have a huge problem with Gillson and his statements even if it were proven beyond any doubt that he made no money from the videos and netcasts. The fact that he is so sensitive about this criticism is revealing in itself.

In addition, "TheTruthResearcher" (see below) has an entry on his blog showing that Gillson did in fact have advertising turned on in his YouTube channel, until he was called on it.

Failed Predictions

March 22, 2011

Donny Gillson predicted28 that a "brown dwarf star" will pass Earth on or about March 22nd, 2012, causing a pole shift.

In an exclusive June 8, 2011 ExopoliticsTV interview with Alfred Lambremont Webre, Donny Gillson, former On-Air Personality for KRTY-FM (San Jose, CA) known as “Don Adams”, 32nd degree Freemason and Knights Templar, and researcher into Comet Elenin, “Nibiru”, Brown Dwarf stated that Comet Elenin (whose closest passage to Earth is expected September 26, 2011) and an accompanying brown dwarf star expected March 22, 2012 (“3/22”) are part of a Draco Reptilian extraterrestrial invasion of Earth that whistleblower Michael Prince has stated U.S. intelligence has expected since 1964.

Needless to say, Comet 2010/X1 "Elenin" broke apart shortly after perihelion, and never was a danger to earth. In addition, Webre and Gillson had the point of closest approach wrong (it would have been October 16, 2011), although September 26th would have been the inferior conjunction between the comet and the Earth. Also, the "accompanying brown dwarf star" never materialized, and we have not been invaded by "Draco Reptilian Extra-Terrestrials".

December 21, 2012

Donny Gillson predicted that Nibiru29 would make an appearance on or about December 21st 2012. On December 20th, a man in the Sacramento area filmed a weather balloon bursting30. A local Television station picked up on the video because it appeared on Craig's List, and it went unidentified for about 24 hours. When it was identified, the reporting media did not update the story for close to a week.

In the meantime, Donny Gillson had proclaimed that it was Nibiru, and that it had been destroyed. But wait, now we have to worry about Wormwood, and the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy (or was that 'System'?)

Legal Troubles

2008 Conviction of issuing a Dishonored Check

On October 24th, 2008, Gillson was convicted of "issuing a Dishonored Check". This turns out to have been a plea deal on a criminal case of identity theft that he perpetrated against his own mother. The full details and supporting documents can be found at this blog.

May 28, 2011, 72-hour hold

On May 28, 2011, Gillson had a run-in with the Saint Paul Police department which resulted in his being placed in a 72-hour hold for his own safety[16].

Donny Gillson contacted this reporter Alfred Lambremont Webre following his release from an unlawful 72-hour hold.31

According to, a 72 hour hold can be triggered for either a "mental health" or "chemical health" emergency32.

Under Minnesota’s "Emergency Hold Law," law enforcement and medical facilities can legally hold a person against his or her will based upon a mental health or chemical health emergency.

Faked Image of the "HMO"

Donny was caught red-handed publishing faked images of 'Nibiru' which were actually taken by Ian Musgrave (a.k.a. 'Astroblogger'), and then (As Ian describes it "painfully") tried to claim it wasn't faked in a video he has now made 'private'. What, don't want people to hear your distortions of fact, Donny? Donny may not have created the image33, but when shown definitively that the image was stolen from another website and edited, has refused to admit that it was faked. In his show on Freedomizer Radio which is still available online he claims34 that "there is no way that it could be photoshopped, because of the way it is sitting in the picture".

Online Reputation Tanking

Donny's reputation (low to begin with among the people who actually get astronomy) has apparently been tanking for a while. For example in this thread on Yahoo! Answers from 2011, we find this comment by the question-asker:

Personally, I think he has some points, more in the past than currently.. now he's just flipping out about every little thing…

We obviously disagree that he ever had any valid points, but yes, he is now flipping out about every little thing he finds.

Gillson's approach to criticism


Gillson's primary reaction to any critique is to heap abuse on the opposite party. This can be clearly seen in the emails that he has sent to this site, as well as in messages sent to other parties via YouTube mail. If the critique has originated from a woman, an additional misogynistic factor in the abuse becomes immediately clear by his references to female genitalia.


Donny Gillson will block or ban you from any group he has control over if you so much as ask a question. Through these heavy-handed methods, he has turned various curios bystanders into enemies.

Legal and extra-legal means

Donny Gillson will file DMCA takedown requests (especially on YouTube) if someone so much as mentions his name. He bases these takedown requests on his own unique interpretation of copyright and intellectual property laws. In several documented cases he has filed DMCA takedown notices based on content that he does not have copyright on (specifically on the music in a video, which turns out to be stock audio from He has also filed notices of trademark violation when he has no registered trademark. Oops

See also Gottaconviction Overturns Self-Publicist Donny Gillson's DMCA Claims


Donny will resort to making defamatory statements about his critics.

Videos Debunking Donny Gillson's Claims


Foghaze's playlist titled "Ursuadams: The Real Message of Delusion-The TRUTH"


TBar1984 has an entire playlist dedicated to debunking Donny.


LadyHarleyRider1213 was a YouTube user, and is an amateur astronomer, who has taken on some of Donny's claims, and has been harassed and threatened by Donny35 and some of Donny's followers36 in return.

Threat by Donny
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Threat by Donny

NOTE: Apparently Donny asked his followers to target LadyHarleyRider1213's YouTube channel, and falsely flag it as containing 'inappropriate content', and has successfully removed it from YouTube. This was apparently done at the specific request of Gillson (See image to the right, click the image to see a full-sized version). As a result, none of the links in the section below are working

In His Own Words

Gillson admitted that he had asked his followers to "do what needed to be done" on the July 2nd show of his "32 Degrees of Insanity" netcast37:

7/2/2012 show at 5:50
"… as you know I've been dealing with some uh… uh… some… you know… some copyright type of stuff uh… on my uh, YouTube channel, and I tell you the power of all of you guys, I have to say Thank You. All I have to say is Thank You. You did what you needed to do. You got it done. Uh… and uh… I asked you to do it, and you did it, and uh, I can't believe how blessed I am of people that I have that are uh… behind the scenes, uh, in front of the scenes, and people that are… and of course Freedomizer Radio." (Emphasis added)

Later, Donny claimed that he did not 'target' LadyHarleyRider1213, and that she shut down her own YouTube channel to try to make him look bad. Then he contradicted himself and claimed that LadyHarleyRider1213 had been shut down by YouTube for filing false DMCA takedown notices against him.

LadyHarleyRider1213 has a post on her blog where she discusses the real reason why Donny Gillson's YouTube Channel was shut down, and why hers was subsequently targeted by Gillson.


The Truth Researcher is a YouTube user who has debunked several of Gillson's videos. In order to protect his channel against Gillson's frequent DMCA attacks, he has duplicated his channel a few times.

The Truth Researcher Blog
The Truth Researcher Channel Facebook page
The Truth Researcher Facebook Page


TruthResearcher Main YouTube Channel


The Truth Researcher Plus One channel


The Truth Researcher Plus Two Channel


The Truth Researcher Plus Three


The Truth Researcher Plus Four Channel

Debunking the Deluded

Debunking the Deluded

The Daily Donny

The Daily Donny's YouTube Channel
The Daily Donny's Blog
The Daily Donny on Facebook


The gottaconviction blog details the evidence showing Donny's past leagal troubles

Your Wish is My Command… 'Show me a conviction and prove your statements'. Donny Gillson, March 25th, 2013.

Parody Pages

Below is a list of some pages we have found that parody Donny Gillson


33degreesofinsanity: The Bullshit Files
33 Degrees of Insanity
33 Degrees of Insanity Extra

YouTube Account Closure

On August 23rd, 2012, YouTube closed Donny Gillson's 'Ursuadams' account, reportedly for 'severe violations of the terms of service'. Further details emerged from an article posted by 'DutchSinse' on BeforeItsNews where part of Gillson's letter to YouTube is shown.38 Gillson inadvertently revealed that YouTube terminated his account for "… wrongful copyright DMCA flagging." Gillson forcefully denies this.

YouTube User 'The Truth Researcher' has published a Wordpress blog called 32º of Insanity YouTube Channel Closure in which he details step by step the legal proceedings that occurred between himself and YouTube, and points out the 4 instances of Perjury that Donny Gillson committed during the month of August with regard to a single video.

Freedomizer Radio cuts ties with Gillson

Up until September 3rd, Gillson's show "32 Degrees of Insanity" was heard at 'Freedomizer Radio' (a 'Blog Talk Radio' network account). Gillson was scheduled to appear at 9:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time. In the place of Gillson's show an announcement was made that Gillson was no longer appearing on Freedomizer Radio.

It appears that Gillson was splitting his time between Freedomizer Radio and another radio network known as "Truth Frequency Radio". However, the arrangement with TFR did not occur until recently, and apparently the account holder at Freedomizer had issues with some no-shows and some shows that were not done live, but were recordings of shows that Gillson had done on the other network.

Calls on followers to shut down TBar1984's account

Gillson has apparently decided that the YouTube user TBar1984 is behind the loss of his account, and states at the end of the description of a recent video:

SHUT DOWN TBAR1984 are the leader of The URSUADAMS SHUT DOWN! Please include his channel in all letters to YOUTUBE!

As far as we know, the reason why YouTube shut down Donny's channel is because Donny exhibited a pattern of falsifying legal documents, specifically DMCA takedown notices, and claims of Trademark infringement, and not because of any organized campaign.

Move to Los Angeles

After getting fired or quitting from Freedomizer Radio, Donny left Reno Nevada and headed south to Los Angeles. As of October 5th, Donny Gillson is living with friends somewhere in the Downtown Los Angeles area, and has stated that he is working for an 'entertainment company'. He has also started spelling his name as 'Donnie Gillson'. If that was an attempt at evading this page, it failed, as this page is still on the first page of search results for "Donnie Gillson".

Third YouTube Channel Shut Down

YouTube's terms of service state that if your account is terminated for a violation of the Terms of Service, you may not create another account. Donny Gillson found this out when he created his third YouTube account39, which was then promptly shut down when it was brought to YouTube's attention.

Defamatory Accusations by Gillson

Donny Gillson has made several defamatory accusations against critics, including "gang stalking", and being "CoIntelPro"40 agents. But, by far, the most scurrilous accusations have been leveled against several people involved with the site and the old site, specifically that the publisher of this site is running a "pedophile ring"[15].

Moving on to Planet X and Hercolubus

Donny famously began promoting a video showing a weather balloon exploding at altitude, and proclaimed that it was 'Nibiru', and that it had been destroyed. However, as of July 2013 he is still promoting 'Planet X' or 'Hercolubus' (which Donny misspells as 'Herculobus') as an inbound object41.

See also: The Truth Files: Donny Gillson's ELC20049-DNY Conundrum

New video channel on PodOmatic

The administrator of this site was startled to receive an invitation to view Donny's new channel on PodOmatic. We did so, and found that Donny has posted a new video, in which he purports to see 'The Black Sun' by viewing the sun through welder's glass. The title of the video is "NEW 32° of Insanity : 7 .27.2013 - Herculobus has arrived : Black Hole Sun won't you come - Episode 1"

Now, Hercolubus was yet another 'rogue planet' claim, made in the 1970s by one 'V.M. Rabolu' (whose real name was Joaquin Enrique Amortegui Valbuena)

Further Reading

Don Gillson's background info on Yatedo.
Don Gillson's Linkedin Page.
Don Gillson's other LinkeIn Page.
Donny Gillson's (listed as Don Adams) Facebook Profile
Donny Gillson's other Facebook Profile
Donny Gillson's other "other" Facebook Profile
Donny Gillson's "32 Degrees of Insanity" Facebook Page


Donny Gillson is simply yet another in a long line of end-of-the-world cranks spouting bad astronomy while having absolutely no idea of what he is talking about.


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